For nearly three decades, Indonesia’s Kekal has defied categorization. Formed in 1995, the project began as a straightforward extreme metal act before morphing into a sprawling, avant-garde entity. They broke barriers in 2004 as the first Indonesian metal band to tour Europe, and in 2009, they boldly transitioned into a “memberless” band to allow for absolute artistic freedom. Now, after a four-year silence, Kekal has returned with “See The Reapers Coming.” The new single, currently available on Bandcamp, strips back the experimental electronic elements of recent years to reconnect with the organic, guitar-driven energy of their 1998 debut, Beyond The Glimpse Of Dreams.
Serving as an early preview of the upcoming full-length album Kanata, the track carries a heavy and urgent message regarding the shifting nature of our world. We recently sat down with Jeff to discuss the deep personal and spiritual journey that shaped this release. In this extensive and deeply honest conversation, Jeff opens up about navigating personal grief, his esoteric views on reality, the dangers of the transhumanist agenda, and the profound synchronistic signs that led to the recent decision to pull Kekal‘s catalog from mainstream streaming platforms.
LotsOfMuzik: Welcome to the interview, Jeff. Thank you for taking the time to answer these questions for us. To start off, “See The Reapers Coming” is described as reconnecting with the energy of the 1998 debut Beyond The Glimpse Of Dreams (more guitars, fewer synthesizers, a rawer approach). After decades of moving into increasingly electronic and experimental territory, what triggered this pull back toward guitar-driven metal? Was it a conscious creative decision, or did the music simply demand it?
Jeff: I took quite a long break from much of creative activities. In 2023, my mother passed away, quite suddenly, without known prior illness. My wife and I live in Canada but most of my family members and relatives, including my parents, live in Indonesia. So I could not be with her and even attend the funeral in person. I had to deal with my own grief for quite some time. That was when I found myself unable to work on my music the same way I always did. There was something missing I needed to find out. Then while browsing music on YouTube I stumbled upon the old Japanese folk and progressive pop music from the 1970s, the era before the “city pop” boom, and it felt so real and honest. Out of nowhere, I found myself drenched in tears listening to the songs by Japanese singer-songwriter Hako Yamasaki, only to later on find online that in her early years of her career, she could make half of the audience cry during her live concerts, only with a simple acoustic guitar and vocals. Her music was simple, especially if compared to much of the current glittery J-pop music, but it is packed with the energy and emotion that could stir my heart. I’m not the kind of person that can easily be emotionally stirred by music. It is definitely not in the atmosphere or the production of the music, it is the energy within it, the soul of the music.
So then I started to think differently, and decided to step away from thinking big in terms of trying to make epic or complex types of arrangements or structures, and went back to the basics and be content with simplicity. The reference to the debut album is just to give an example of going back to basics, because back then we recorded the album on a 16-track analog tape, and we did not have the luxury of having virtually unlimited recording tracks to play around with layers and musical elements the way modern computer-based digital recording provides nowadays. But at the same time, the excitement of working with limited tracks became obvious, because the focus was on the energy itself while recording the music, as opposed to the outcome of the presentation. The foundation of Kekal is guitar, paired with rhythm or beat that carries groove. It’s a guitar-based rock music. It took me years to adjust the mindset of going back to basics.
LotsOfMuzik: That makes perfect sense. You’ve mentioned incorporating more major chords and energetic riffs because the music “isn’t supposed to be somber and depressing.” Given the weight of the lyrical content (the collapse of systems, the transhumanist agenda, the end of the old world), why did you feel the musical tone needed to contrast with the subject matter rather than mirror it?
Jeff: I don’t think there’s any contrast. We are currently in a transitional period where there’s a junction between the two worlds; between the old world that is collapsing and the new world that is birthing. All is being played out at the same time. Humanity is being presented with two choices of collective destiny; whether to embrace the new world that is more natural, organic and alive, or to cling upon the old world full of artificiality and falsehoods that will meet its end very soon. All the evil we’ve seen in the world today is just the darkness or shadow getting exposed to the light of truth. That darkness has already been here since many thousands of years ago when the so-called Neolithic Revolution began. But only quite recently, it is being exposed more broadly in the greater human collective, so more people are becoming aware of it. It is a natural process, as the light comes in, darkness fades. Because those in power know their entire system is collapsing, these same old guardians of the system try to lure us into partaking in their new agenda, which is the technocratic dystopian AI system of slavery and control. It isn’t new in itself but another deceptive twist in order to take humanity down the path of the old world that is spiraling down the drain, because they need us organic humans for their continued sustenance even after they lose Earth. So, what music is focusing on in terms of energy, is not on the collapse of the old world. There’s no need to waste it that way. But instead, what I try to focus on is the excitement of embracing the new beginning, the new world that will soon bring humanity back to what it was in the beginning, to remembering its very essence as a spiritual being that is organic. Lyrically, “See The Reapers Coming” represents the energy and determination to disengage from the affairs of the old world and its entire slave system, or by the popular term “the matrix”. Even though the first part of the lyrics describes the darkness, it’s just meant to expose it or to bring it into the light, into people’s awareness. The ending of the lyrics is about the excitement of seeing the reapers coming in for harvest.
LotsOfMuzik: The four-year gap since the last Kekal release is the longest in the band’s history. Without reducing it to simple life logistics, what was happening creatively and spiritually during that silence? Was there a moment where you weren’t sure Kekal would release music again?
Jeff: Personally, that long period of pause, aside from what was needed because of my personal grief due to the passing of my mother, was revealed to me as a beautiful moment of self-introspection. Taking a step back and reviewing your own life is a beautiful thing, you know, even though it wasn’t pleasant at all because I had to face my own inner-demons, the monsters within me. It is beautiful because it may lead to acceptance and self-forgiveness, and in the end there’s a feeling of the burden being lifted. I’m still in that process. Many people are afraid to face themselves because they’re afraid of their own monsters, the dark side hiding beneath the surface of the psyche. They tend to divert it into various external distractions like work, hobbies, religion, carnal pleasures, etc. as a form of denial. People tend to judge others mainly as a psychological projection because they are unable to forgive themselves. In order to know ourselves, we must dig into the depths of ourselves and face all the dirt, otherwise it’s hard to forgive if we don’t even know ourselves. Kekal is just a platform for my honest expression that helps me going through that process of knowing self, so I never really care about releasing music more than expressing myself in both writing music and lyrics. Since about 10 years ago, everything would start from the lyrics. Even during that period of pause, I still wrote the lyrics, like poems, without thinking about the music. There are lyrics that never became the songs, but that doesn’t mean it’s a void of expression.
LotsOfMuzik: I see. You’ve described Kanata as an open-ended album you don’t plan to finish “before this old world ends.” Can you unpack that? Is Kanata more of a living document than a traditional album, something that grows alongside events in the world?
Jeff: As I mentioned earlier about the transitional period we’re in right now, I just felt very strongly in my guts that I don’t think I could finish the entire album before this old world ends. I feel that the complete collapse of the old world, the current world or system we’re in right now, is coming really soon. I’m not going to freak anyone out nor to make our listeners into becoming illogical preppers living in fear or in a survival mode, that’s just silly. But I can assure you that the collapse of the entire system is inevitable, and it’s not something that will happen in the distant future. It is already happening, and any big significant event could just pop anytime, in the blink of an eye. All the lyrics for about 10 songs are already done, enough for a full-length album. To me, it’s not about “Oh, I will wait until the series of events are being uncovered”, but because I honestly don’t think I could finish with the album before we see the collapse of the entire old system. In my own timeline of reality, time runs really fast right now. It’s speeding up like crazy. What I could do in let’s say 3 hours about 10 years ago, I’d need to take 5 or 6 hours now.
LotsOfMuzik: That is a fascinating perspective. You noted that in your timeline of reality, time is speeding up drastically. On a practical level, how do you navigate daily life, your professional work, and the intricate process of recording an album when the fabric of time feels like it is compressing around you?
Jeff: It has become tougher if I still cling to the old way of navigating the routine. The only way to do that is to remove myself from the rat-race, from the daily stress and overwork. I no longer work a full-time job right now, and only work from home without having to deal with a long daily commute. Also, I no longer use social media, outside of posting Kekal stuff once a week or two, which probably takes only 10 to 15 minutes. Regarding music, it’s relatively the same. I no longer browse and listen to music as much as I did in the past. I now really step back from almost everything, which includes writing and recording music, which explains why it took 4 years just for me to come up with one new song. The only more time that I spend right now compared to a decade ago, is probably writing and reading. Even so, I still have some newly bought books unread, and they’re still lying there on my desk, on the waiting list.
LotsOfMuzik: Musically, what is your production setup for this track and for Kanata going forward? Are you working entirely alone, or are there collaborators involved? How has your home recording approach evolved since the early cassette 4-track days?
Jeff: To make the album more cohesive sound-wise, one song that would become the anchor for the album had to be picked before the entire production began. “See The Reapers Coming” was picked because it is the song that carries the right momentum for the entire album. When you had already figured out the momentum for the entire direction, it became easier to come up with the sound concept, like the tone of the guitars, or how the drums would sound, how it would be mixed, etc. This song took months just in the phase of figuring out, especially the guitar tone. So far, I’m working the music and production by myself, and the other collaborator, Levi, who, in many years now since Kekal became member-less, has provided photography and illustration work that would normally be on the album cover and inlay. But on many occasions, I’d use his photos and drawings to help with the songwriting. So, indirectly, he also contributes to the music through his photos and drawings. I know, this may sound unconventional, but that’s what Kekal is, being an unconventional band!
My home-recording approach has evolved to a degree that it has become more efficient, and will continue to evolve naturally, but I think it hasn’t been changed in terms of the method of recording. I still believe in the energy within music, and capturing the strong energy in the recording is way more important than achieving perfection in performing music. If you listen closely enough, in every Kekal album, I actually let tiny mistakes be there in the recording, because my production philosophy is that we are human, and it is a very human thing to make mistakes. We don’t need to lessen our humanness and to achieve robotic accuracy. When you play guitar, you put the energy into the performance, and in my observations, most of the time the performance during practice or rehearsals is better than in the recording session, even though it seems to be sloppier, because you can direct the flow of energy more freely, as you don’t need to worry about making mistakes. In metal music, most people put too much pressure to play it right, tight and perfectly during recording, and their worry or fear of making mistakes is actually what makes the energy weaker or even stale.
LotsOfMuzik: That raw, human element definitely shines through. Speaking of that energy, you mentioned earlier that discovering Hako Yamasaki‘s raw, acoustic folk music was a beautiful origin point for this new era. However, Kekal is still fundamentally a heavy, guitar-driven rock and metal project. How exactly do you translate the vulnerable, stripped-down energy of a solo acoustic singer into the aggressive, distorted sonic framework of a track like “See The Reapers Coming”?
Jeff: Music is actually universal, despite the broad genres and many different ways of using instruments. In my own dictionary, because I really don’t see music as separated by genres and styles, the way I see music is very simple. When we remove all the external elements, the core of music is pretty much the same, and with that, the way I see music is just whether it is honest/genuine/sincere music or else fake/gimmicky music. That can be identified by the presence of the energy within it. In the past, when Kekal had just started, when asked in interviews about our influences, we mentioned bands like Cocteau Twins or Depeche Mode. They’re not related to extreme metal music by any means, and we were still very much considered an extreme metal band at that time. But their music has been significantly affecting our songwriting. I put emphasis on emotional content in music, that would translate into melody and rhythm or groove. The more genuine the music is, the stronger the emotional content will be, just because there’s a strong human energy flowing within it.
LotsOfMuzik: In your Substack writings around this song, you write about transhumanism as a mechanism for severing the connection between the human mind and the soul by merging it with AI. Many long-time Kekal fans are themselves tech-savvy people who use AI tools daily and may not see it as inherently threatening. What would you say directly to a fan who resonates with your broader message but doesn’t share this specific concern about AI?
Jeff: My field of work outside music is actually graphic design and multimedia, so I may still be considered as tech-savvy by many. But still, I decided to stay away from using AI as much as I could because there is a fundamental danger to it, and I certainly will not be using an AI chatbot for life advice. There are actually many people who used to work as AI developers for tech companies with high salaries who decided to quit their jobs because they witnessed the present danger in their own eyes, and they got freaked out.
Everything that I have shared in terms of message is available and readily accessible both in my music and also in the Substack articles. Maybe if that hypothetical fan happens to be open to spiritual practices, they could pray or meditate while or before reading my Substack articles if they are uncertain about the message, rather than ignoring it or becoming a trigger-mad-bro. There is a Spirit that could lead or guide anyone along the correct pathway if they are sincerely seeking it. Everyone should choose their own pathway because we live in a free-will universe. It is actually wrong if I try to persuade people into agreeing with my life decisions. My only approach to any of the issues we face today is that we should not become ignorant of our surroundings and, as a result, can easily be lured into going with the flow. That flow may take us into the bottomless pit of the abyss. Self-awareness is essential, and so is critical thinking and intuition. Tuning in to our conscience, or the subtle “voice of the soul” is also important. The well-known ancient Greek philosopher, Plato, has his famous quote: “ignorance is the root and stem of all evil.”
LotsOfMuzik: In your Substack, you reference specific evidence you find compelling about technologies being introduced into the human body without consent. How do you respond to long-time fans who are open to your spiritual message but feel certain specific claims make it harder for them to share your music with others without being dismissed?
Jeff: Well, in more than 30 years of Kekal, the band have experienced several points in time where we lost a significant number of our fan base. The worst was probably when we released the album “8” back in 2010 when the majority of our metal fan-base had just left. We are never afraid of losing fans, because staying true to ourselves, I mean being authentic and honest to oneself, is far more important.
I actually observed that we had certain fans who got mad when presented with any new information with evidences that’s uncomfortable or triggering to them, and it was years before the Substack article or the lyric-video of the new song. I wrote in the behind-the-lyrics e-book document for the previous album “Envisaged” back in 2022 regarding that same message, and even in the lyrics of one of the songs on that album. I try never to compromise in making statements, whether musically or lyrically. Being authentic is part of spiritual practice. I always believe that if one is open to any spiritual message, they will also open to any message that confronts them with the truth, even it is uncomfortable, and they may also feel compelled to share it with friends without being afraid of the ridicule. Otherwise, there’s nothing spiritual in it. Most of the time, from my observations, those who reject spiritual messages are those who are engaged too deeply in religious dogma or programming and have gotten way too comfortable being in that religious bubble that they thought is safe and truthful. But that can be a hindrance to spiritual growth, a kind of spiritual bypassing. Religion can be faked, twisted and manipulated to serve the ruling elite of the old world, but spirituality cannot, because spirituality is about tuning in, going within, accessing the connection to the Spirit within oneself.
LotsOfMuzik: That takes a lot of conviction. In your Substack writings, you discuss the idea that certain members of the global ruling class may not be organically human in a spiritual sense, that they carry a different kind of soul-seed. How did you arrive at this framework, and how do you personally distinguish between what is genuine spiritual discernment and what might be pattern recognition applied to people you already distrust?
Jeff: Good question, but it is actually tricky when it comes to the understanding of the term “genuine spiritual discernment”. You know, numerous people come to claim to have their own “spiritual discernment” or even to the extreme they could also say “God has spoken to them”, but yet they can come up with many different outcomes that contradict each other. That’s because what they claim, isn’t spiritual in nature. It’s more from their own justification based on what their mind is trying to tell them. I never use the term “claiming” in my writing. I don’t need to proclaim anything within my message. I don’t even like the term “claim” because there is a material essence in the term “claim”, similar to the term “earn.” And matter is an illusion. My message is a testimony that I willingly share, something that I feel it as the most resonates with me at the core level. It doesn’t need to be accepted by others, because in spirituality everything is energy that continually vibrates. It would eventually make a resonance between those who vibrate at a similar frequency range, just like musical notes. It doesn’t need to be forced.
I don’t like to disclose about myself too much in the band’s interview, but since you asked about how I arrived at this framework, I need to tell you a bit about the background story. It’s quite a long story, but I will explain here just in brief. It began sometime around late 2015 when I started to experience what some would call a “spiritual awakening.” It is difficult to explain in detail, but I’ve had symptoms that also include drastic changes in my diet (where I could not eat most meat), my sleep patterns, emotions, perceptions, intuition, how I see and feel others, the world, etc. At first, I had no idea what I was experiencing is generally known as “spiritual awakening”. I only came to realize a few years later after reading and watching similar experiences happening to others, including some well-known individuals such as Leo Tolstoy and John Coltrane, which changed their course of life goals and priorities. Other than those symptoms, I’ve also experienced Synchronicity, which are like strange “coincidences” that also have meanings upon further reflection, and many other strange revelations which somehow “guide” me in receiving new knowledge regarding ourselves, the world we live in, and the Universe. This is what people generally call “Gnosis” or “revealed knowledge.” A form of guidance to find answers and also through inner knowing.
LotsOfMuzik: You’ve drawn on the Parable of the Wheat and Tares from Matthew 13, interpreting it in a way that goes beyond traditional Christian theology into what sounds like a more Gnostic or esoteric reading. When did your relationship with scripture shift in that direction? Was there a single catalyst, or was it a gradual process?
Jeff: My understanding of what is written in the scriptures, whether they are within the official canon known as the Bibleor outside the canon, is that there are always two-tier interpretations: one is exoteric or surface-level, and the other one is esoteric or deep spiritual interpretation. The reason Yeshua, or Jesus, always used parables in delivering his message is because of that. He even said to his disciples when asked why he speaks in parables. His answer was: “To you it has been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given. For to the one who has, more will be given, and he will have an abundance, but from the one who has not, even what he has will be taken away. This is why I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand.” It’s similar to the modern phrase: “those of you who know will know, and those who don’t, won’t”.
The spiritual interpretation will never be understood through theology or studying interpretations, but through spiritual understanding, which can be had only if one seeks, asks and knocks, meaning sincerely asking God through quiet prayers or meditations. It cannot be achieved through the curiosity of the mind alone, but only through the work of the Spirit. Also, I never understand what people claim as “traditional Christian theology”, because many things have been altered and changed in terms of traditions, and throughout history, many distortions have happened to the level beyond ridiculous. To me, what you say as “traditional Christian theology” might be something that’s only related to certain wings within the modern Christian religion, those who are taught in Western nations which all derived from the Roman Empire when they took over early Christian movements in the year 313 CE, made it into a monolithic religion, and then distort it further down the road.
In about early 2018, during the second phase of my spiritual awakening journey, I came across the texts which are known as the Nag Hammadi library, almost by “coincidence”, but I don’t believe it to be a random coincidence but instead part of the revelations given to me. Upon reading and learning the texts further, I realized that many of these writings seem to answer many of my questions regarding life and the Universe. These texts, originating from the early, pre-religion Christian mystics and esoteric students which people now call them as the “gnostics”, were highly suppressed and thought to be destroyed by the Roman Empire’s authorities when the empire took over the early movements of Christianity in the 4th Century, perhaps because the texts reveal too much information regarding who we are as a species, the world, the nature of our Universe, and also the realities beyond what we can see and perceive. These texts were “accidentally” found in 1945 buried and hidden inside a sealed jar. For sure, they were intentionally buried to avoid being found and destroyed by the Romans, who persecuted and killed the “heretics” in the 4th Century. I mean those who did not want to submit to the “official” version of Christian dogma imposed by the Roman authorities. What struck me was that many of these writings explain pretty much just like what modern theoretical physicists in the field of Quantum Mechanics try to conclude based on their mathematical equations regarding the holographic nature of our universe and our world as a simulation. It took me more than a year to dig deeper and to connect the dots, while I also did parallel research on “near-death-experience” by reading experiences from around two hundred people, out of many thousands available on the Near-Death Experience Research Foundation’s online database. To my surprise, all these things come together harmoniously and lead me to whole new realizations. This new knowledge basically helps myself in realizing our place in the Universe and our course at the same time, regarding who we really are and where we are going, especially nowadays.
LotsOfMuzik: It is amazing how all those elements connected for you. In your Substack, you explore the idea of soul reincarnation within ruling bloodlines and draw comparisons between historical and contemporary figures. How literally do you intend that framework to be taken? Is it a theological position, a working theory, or more of a provocation to make people look at power differently?
Jeff: Not in any of those three guesses you mentioned, unfortunately. Once again, I don’t call that a framework, but more a realization, or revelation if you will, and this only happened after my awakening period began. Prior to that, I would have had no idea that reincarnation could actually ever exist, let alone discover things that are hidden beneath the surface. To make it clear, I don’t intend to convert people into agreeing with me. I just share what I have been given or revealed to me. Once again, I believe in resonance. Energy contains information that carries vibrations. When two vibrations are in a similar wavelength or frequency range, they will resonate with each other. It is as simple as that. My only intention is to share that information, which I’ve considered as important to be shared because I have been blessed with knowledge. I’m just an instrument, or a messenger. Like a postman delivering a letter from the Prime Minister to a school. That postman won’t expect or demand the letter to be opened and read in front of the schoolchildren, but it’s his “duty” to deliver it to the recipient safely. God knows my heart and my deepest intent, so I’m not afraid that people will think I’m just crazy or have gone full heretic or even a full tinfoil-hat mode. People have free-will, and they can either accept, reject, or even hate my message. But in the end, only God can judge me.
LotsOfMuzik: Kekal began in a Christian metal context in Indonesia, a country with a complex and sometimes tense religious landscape for minorities. How has your personal faith evolved from those early extreme metal years into the highly individualized, esoteric spiritual position you hold today? Was there a breaking point with institutional Christianity?
Jeff: I need to first clarify that Kekal has never considered itself a Christian metal band. It’s the tag that has been placed on the band by certain fans because some of them think we have traits that can be identifiable as Christian, especially lyrically. As a band, Kekal has always rejected any attempt to put the band into boxes of genres or categorizations, whether musically or lyrically. It’s almost like calling Van Halen a heavy metal band only because they share some traits, like technical and fast guitar solos or double-bass drumming, like a normal heavy metal band would do.
My faith has not changed. The understanding of what faith is can evolve or change, yes, but faith itself is a constant state of being. Faith is not the same as belief because it is in the domain of the soul, not the mind, and it does not have to be associated with religion. Faith is an inherent aspect of spirituality, maybe akin to the way a mother would trust her daughter, because her daughter carries the same familial aspects as her. You know, something like “I trust my daughter because she’s my daughter”. To me, faith has always been individual, because any individual has a free-will at the soul level that no one else can tamper with. My spirituality is also not a position, it cannot be considered as synonymous with my point of view. In fact, I’m still yet to align my point of view or my perceptual position on how I see things, with my spirituality. Spirituality cannot be claimed or be put into a fixed mindset. It is a given, just like the blood relationship between a mother and her biological daughter is a given. What makes Kekal seem to have evolved in terms of the lyrics is because my understanding of the world and the Universe has changed as the result of my spiritual journey. At the core level, nothing has changed. Institutionalized belief-systems, not limited to the Christian religion only, have the aspect of forced-agreement or dogma that followers need to adhere to. As with any other institutions, they have rules, regulations, and membership guidelines, some even with oaths. I feel that I have always been against the idea of institutionalized belief-system.
LotsOfMuzik: You reference sources that range from the Book of Enoch and Sumerian texts to Gnostic cosmology and concepts like archons and the false matrix. Do you consider yourself a Christian, a Gnostic, something else, or does labeling your spiritual position even matter to you at this point?
Jeff: I consider myself a Christian because I follow Yeshua’s teachings, although I no longer follow the so-called Christian religion and many of its dogmatic elements that come with it. But I understand, in the eyes of religious Christians, I may not fall into their categorization. I’m outside their club. That’s fine, because I don’t conform to anybody nor institutions. Once again, I really don’t care if people call me names to be honest. Heretic? Fine. Misguided? Fine. Insane? Fine. Labeling doesn’t matter to me, because people’s judgment doesn’t mean anything, you know. There’s no such thing as “spiritual position”, as I explained earlier. I don’t hold my position or try to argue that my position is the best or the most ideal one. No. It’s more like, “This is what I am.” Anyone can either agree with it or not, based on resonance.
LotsOfMuzik: For someone engaging with your worldview for the first time through “See The Reapers Coming”, what are the two or three most important books, texts, or thinkers that have most shaped your understanding of soul consciousness, the matrix, and the ruling archonic system?
Jeff: To understand this illusory aspect of reality, there is a book that is quite easy to read, called “The Holographic Universe” by Michael Talbot. It explains in an easier, layman language than the scientific journals and articles in Quantum Mechanics. Other book that I can recommend is “The Nag Hammadi Scriptures”, edited by Marvin Meyer. It’s a collection of old texts, most of them considered as “gnostic” that was found buried in a Jar near Nag Hammadi, Egypt in 1945. The third one, I can also recommend “Infinite Love is the Only Truth: Everything Else is Illusion” by David Icke. David Icke is a controversial author, before my spiritual awakening I thought his books are full of woo-woo conspiracy theory stuff, but right now, many of my new realizations are also in-line with what he has told or written.
LotsOfMuzik: You’ve written that “our thoughts create reality and our emotions enhance it to manifest quicker in the physical.” This overlaps with ideas found in New Age philosophy, Law of Attraction thinking, and certain quantum consciousness theories. Where does Kekal‘s spiritual framework overlap with, and where does it fundamentally diverge from, mainstream New Age thinking?
Jeff: First, we need to understand what New Age is. The New Age movement is actually a form of “religion” that infiltrates the modern spiritual communities in the Western nations. It is almost the same that happened to many of the thriving old spiritual communities in the past, including Christianity, in which the teachings have been compromised, tampered with and altered by the ruling elite to conform with their agenda. That’s the basic point, OK? The understanding that thoughts create reality, and that we are all energy that vibrates, energy is information, etc. did not come from the New Age philosophy, but from very, very ancient spiritual knowledge, even before Christianity. For example, the term “law of attraction” is actually the same thing as the law of resonance, in which any waveform of information that carries a certain vibrational frequency in its energetic signature, will trigger what is called resonance to any other waveform that carries the same or similar vibrational frequency in its energetic signature. It has been proven scientifically. Just pick the E string of your guitar, the other E string of your other guitar nearby will also vibrate, but not your G string, no pun intended. In psychology, there are real observable examples of patterns. For example, a person who was abused in a prior relationship will meet another person who is also abusive. It seems scary, but unless the person who has been a victim in an abusive relationship starts to heal him/herself and disengage from the looping mindset that he/she will not live happily, that person will continue to attract other abusers in future relationships. This proves the strength of vibrational resonance in physical reality.
What I’ve observed as an attempt to misuse this “law of attraction” is to use it like some kind of “magic” trick. Most of the time, in order to attract material wealth, many teachers and gurus within the New Age pseudo-religion got rich not because of that method but because of luring many people into paying the fees for their magic tricks promising wealth, health, and material benefits. This is very, very similar to the so-called “prosperity gospel” theology in certain wings of Christian religion. Energy can be manipulated into following a certain pattern, and from that it could achieve a certain manifested outcome. But to me, is that if the intention is not pure and used for the betterment of the entire community, playing with energy and using it for self-serving purposes is the same as the use of black magic.
LotsOfMuzik: You write about Earth being liberated from the false matrix and people “switching timelines.” Is that something you see happening in a literal, physical sense, or is it more of an internal shift in individual and collective consciousness? And what does the “new world” actually look like to you in concrete terms?
Jeff: Physical reality is actually an illusion. It’s all in our consciousness. Everything is perceptual but holographically manifested in the physical. Technically, we all hallucinate our reality. I know that can be hard to digest, but the world we live in is just a simulation, just like a virtual reality game. It is not real although it feels very much so. The first level of consciousness is always individual, but we also have collective agreement that shares the same perceptual reality between the players. This has been proven in the studies of Quantum Mechanics, or quantum physics. Matter is not real. Atom is the smallest particle of matter, but inside an atom it is nothing, only electromagnetic vibrations from the subatomic particles.
During my time in the University back in the day, I remember learning about people who suffer from Schizophrenia. They can perceive a slightly different kind of reality than us. For example, they can perceive a person like seeing, touching or able to listen to that person just like us, but that person can’t be perceived by us. Does it mean they hallucinate their reality? No, the answer is we all hallucinate our reality, because forms are just illusion and their appearances are perceptual. Our brains decode our own so-called reality. The difference is that we have some kind of collective perceptual agreement that what we see or hear or touch are shared between each of us. When I see a man sitting on a bench across the street while chatting with you, you can also see him. Those who suffer from schizophrenia have a some kind of glitch in the decoding process within their brain that they may perceive differently, and so it is possible that they can also perceive anyone or anything that we cannot perceive. We can create and alter our reality because thoughts contain energy and information that can manifest itself in the physical, that’s why a paranoid schizophrenic person sometimes perceive the reality based on what the person fears about. As an example, let’s say he has fears of being followed and harassed by spy agents, then his thoughts and beliefs would create perceptual mapping as an energetic signature, and then his brain would decode that energy signature and eventually create a realistic image of people who follow him wherever he goes, while he could see, hear, and touch them. I once encountered a person talking to a tree. People may laugh at him, but in his reality the tree can talk to him, and he’s just making 2-way conversations.
The new world will be perceived as solid, and we will feel it pretty much as physical as this current world, but many times more beautiful and enhanced. It will not be held in a linear time continuum, because there’s no quantum entanglement between space and time, unlike this version of reality, the old world or what I call it the “false matrix”. Time will be fluid, so in that regard, manifestations can be fast. People can do telepathic communication, teleportation and astral travel. People will live in unity within small communities. There is no need for external technology because human will be the technology. All of that can happen upon the activation of our dormant DNA, during the harvest. The tech-term for that is an “operating system upgrade”. You can actually watch the near-death experience testimony from Howard Storm for much of the details. He was shown the glimpse of the new world when he was on the other side. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytUqTRC1twE I have also read probably 4 or 5 other near-death-experience testimonies on the NDE database online, those who were shown a glimpse of the new world. They were shown pretty much the similar visuals.
LotsOfMuzik: Indonesia is the world’s largest Muslim-majority nation, and Kekal has carried explicitly Christian and esoteric spiritual content for 30 years. What has been the lived reality of being a spiritually outspoken band in that environment? Has there ever been personal danger, serious pressure, or moments where you considered toning things down for safety?
Jeff: I have lived in Canada for about 20 years now, since 2006. I don’t know much about Indonesia right now, but Indonesian people have been mostly tolerant because they are very diverse. They are mostly nice people. I have Muslim friends and family members in Indonesia, and they don’t see Christians the way Christians see Muslim minority in the U.S. with all the stereotypes and whatnot. The only concern for Indonesia is just political instability, because most Indonesian people who live in big cities tend to have a high stress levels due to long hours of work and long commutes. They can easily be provoked by paid agent provocateurs to participate in riots especially when it comes to sensitive issues like wages and working conditions. Indonesia has become a relatively healthy democratic nation. They have hold direct presidential elections where citizens can vote presidential candidate directly. Before the year 2000, it was another story because it was still under the military dictatorship type of governance, so yes, people can go disappear or being murdered. Right now, the USA is probably way more dangerous than Indonesia. I’ve heard multiple people are either missing or getting “suicided” there just by whistleblowing, etc.
LotsOfMuzik: In 2004, Kekal became the first Indonesian band to tour Europe, with dates in Germany, the Netherlands, and Sweden. Looking back, how did that tour change the band, and change you personally? Were European audiences engaging with the music differently than audiences in Indonesia or Southeast Asia?
Jeff: The tour really helped me to expand my horizons, by learning different customs in different cultures. If you only tour regionally, you won’t be learning as much as going to places far away from your own country. That’s a plus for the experience. For the band, the tour helped us to understand that music is actually universal and cross-cultural. There is no fundamental difference. Audience engagement is pretty much similar, it varies from city to city and from venue to venue, but that happens in both sides.
LotsOfMuzik: Indonesia’s metal scene has grown enormously since Kekal formed in 1995. Do you feel Kekal has had a measurable influence on that growth, and are there Indonesian bands active today whose work genuinely excites you?
Jeff: I’m not following the music scene anymore and don’t listen much to Indonesian bands right now. Kekal is not popular in Indonesia. The level of influence is there, but more affecting musicians and the bands. Kekal is known more as the band for musicians, because many of our loyal listeners are musicians from many different backgrounds, from rock, metal, punk, jazz, electronic, pop, noise, what have you. In the metal scene, Kekal is pretty much less desirable, and I don’t want to step into a hypothetical guessing as to why. Many consider Kekal as “legend” and it stops there, being a legacy band of some sort. The term “legacy” can also mean something that’s no longer relevant. As in influencing the culture or music scene in Indonesia, Kekal is way too small to ever make any ripple.
LotsOfMuzik: Your writings suggest that Western democracy is largely managed from above, that elections are outcomes rather than choices. Does this same analysis extend to Indonesian and Southeast Asian political systems in your view? Is there a distinctly Indonesian dimension to the false-matrix as you’ve lived it?
Jeff: No, because I started from seeing the pattern a long time ago from the Indonesian politics, which was largely incapacitated by the so-called Western hands. The first coup d’état back in 1965-1966 was largely operated by the CIA in order to install the fascist-style military dictatorship, and it happened almost at the same time to other countries in the world like Chile, South Korea, etc. Many people died in the process, hundreds of thousands if not millions. It was a bloody fucking dirty coup. That same military regime was then replaced through another regime change again in 1998, helped by the CIA operatives that began in 1997 through the Asian monetary crisis and civil conflicts, because the world order was switched to the so-called neo-liberal policies, in which large U.S. corporations had to come into Indonesian business, pressuring government to accept them, otherwise, boom boom! regime change. So the same president that was installed was then also got kicked-out 32 years later by the same shadow hands. I am not making things up, because one of my relatives at that time knew someone from Indonesian intelligence, and he was told that it was the hand of CIA, again just like in 1965-1966.
My analysis is actually the other way around. It started from observing then identifying the patterns that happened in Indonesian politics, and then extend it to the Western world. There’s no so-called Indonesian dimension to the false-matrix. This matrix is the entire human perceptual veil. Both you and I perceive this same matrix, because the program is in the human DNA, our biological software. The difference between each individuals is only in the level of awareness to this matrix.
LotsOfMuzik: Many of the events you reference (the pandemic, the AI rollout, the accelerating surveillance infrastructure) are global in origin but experienced very locally. How did Indonesia specifically process these things, and did your environment reinforce or complicate your worldview in any unexpected ways?
Jeff: I was already in Canada during that time, so I didn’t pay much attention to what was happening in Indonesia.
LotsOfMuzik: In 2009, Kekal shed all official members and became what you’ve called a “memberless band.” That model has now held for 17 years. Looking back honestly, was it the right decision? And philosophically, what does it mean for an entity like Kekal to continue existing without the people who originally built it?
Jeff: Right decision? Yes, absolutely. Kekal has always been a platform for artistic expression, like a blank canvas that already has its own character, but without anyone who’s willing to use it, it would remain a blank canvas and meaningless. The contributors are like the painters who put the canvas into paintings.
LotsOfMuzik: On April 12th, you announced that Kekal would no longer distribute music on Spotify, Apple Music, Amazon, or YouTube Music, keeping only Bandcamp. That’s a significant and very recent decision. What was the final factor that led to it, and do you feel any tension between limiting reach at the exact moment the music’s message feels most urgent?
Jeff: I had been contemplated for quite some time, but it was a series of synchronicity in the forms of 3 distinct signs that I received which pointed to when I should make that decision. I originally planned that “See The Reapers Coming”would be the final single being distributed there, and the release date of April 29th had already been set, but it turned out I had to cancel it midway and made that abrupt announcement. Following synchronicity or signs means to put faith that whatever the decision is, it should be the correct one even though I did not see it at that time, so there was no overthinking or doubting it. Spiritual battle exists, even though I know I am divinely-protected, but I should be wise in making decisions especially nowadays. I have to live by faith and following the signs, otherwise I would have gotten attacks.
LotsOfMuzik: Following those signs clearly takes a lot of trust. In your response about pulling Kekal‘s music from mainstream streaming platforms, you mentioned receiving a series of synchronicity in the forms of “3 distinct signs” that prompted the abrupt cancellation of the April 29th release. If you are comfortable sharing, what were those specific signs, and how did they manifest in your day-to-day life to make the message so undeniable?
Jeff: I’m not too comfortable sharing the specifics because most of the signs or synchronicity have personal elements to them. But I can give something that’s more generic or less personal in terms of receiving the signs. Many times, they come out of nowhere, but they contain specific key elements that unmistakably carry the related “keywords” of the things that I’m still contemplating. I normally would wait for 3 different but connected or relatable signs before taking action, hence the usual “3 signs”, just to make sure they are really a synchronicity or “meaningful coincidences.” Others may decide after seeing only one, and that’s even better. But I don’t push myself to wait for the signs to appear, because the mind can be tricky. All I had to do was just to allow and surrender, and just continue doing things normally while being open to any possibility and keep the awareness. All of a sudden, the sign could just appear, maybe something like a YouTube video, or an article in a magazine, or someone made a call about something.
Back in 2015 when I was contemplating on moving to another city here in Canada, I had no idea where I was supposed to move, but I received 3 clear signs. One of the signs was when I was in the main library downtown. I was browsing for some design magazines, then all of a sudden a person just came and he was looking for the latest issue of MoneySensemagazine, a Canadian magazine for investments. I told him “there” as I pointed to the magazine on the rack. He took one and just went away. But then I looked at the cover of the previous issue, it said in the headline something like “Canada’s 10 Most Livable Cities.” I thought it was interesting, then when I read the main article, Ottawa was listed at the top spot there. I remembered I was also being nudged to see the other seemingly subtle signs pointing to Ottawa, prior to that. One was when my wife was watching the “flash mob” dance on YouTube. They did the flash mob in front of the Parliament building, which is in Ottawa, but I didn’t pay attention too much until that MoneySense magazine encounter. We moved to Ottawa in 2016 and have lived here ever since. Synchronicity can only “appear” when we are ready to embrace the spiritual journey, because these signs are actually spiritual guidance. If we tend to doubt everything and dismiss everything as mere coincidence, of course, we can’t see them because even if we see them we will dismiss them right away.
LotsOfMuzik: Kekal has operated for years with a 2D illustrated representative instead of traditional band photos. What does that figure represent beyond the practical challenge of having no band members to photograph? Is it a statement about artistic identity, and who are you without a face?
Jeff: We didn’t think much beyond the lack of availability of the band photos when all the band members at that time decided to leave altogether and became no-strings-attached open contributors. The label who released the album “8”asked for a band photo for PR album promotional purposes, but we could not supply any because we had already out of the band. So it was decided for us to supply the illustration instead, to act as a band photo. It could be seen as a statement but only later on, after the illustration was finished. Former bass player Levi did the illustration, and I was like “what is that thing?”
LotsOfMuzik: You’ve produced every Kekal album yourself across nearly 30 years and roughly 13 full-length releases. Is there an album in that catalog you feel is sonically undercooked in retrospect? And is there one you feel you got completely right?
Jeff: I think the previous album “Envisaged” should have gotten more thoughts when it comes to the general production. The mixing could have been done better as well. It was done relatively quick, like four months something, all from scratch, and all the writing was done during recording. Many of the guitar parts were improvised, like jamming over a click track and then cut and paste them to form the actual songs. Most of the other Kekal albums are just fine. I don’t normally overthink any finished albums. When it’s done, it’s done.
LotsOfMuzik: A substantial part of Kekal‘s catalog (including “See The Reapers Coming”) is offered as free or pay-what-you-want. You’ve described this as maintaining “a healthy energy exchange.” Can you explain what that means to you in practical and philosophical terms? How do you think about the relationship between music, money, and creative energy?
Jeff: A healthy energy exchange is that the flow of energy within the system should not be overwhelmingly one-way, nor stale. Bandcamp as a platform offers a healthy energy exchange because they operate in a far-trade system, but only if bands want to utilize them. The practical term can be applied to for example, the number of downloads should be balanced in terms of those who pay for the album and those who download them for free. Just an example, let’s say the band gets $100 from the digital download purchases a month, then the overall free download number has to be around 100 units of albums. This is the reason we put a number of our albums for free downloads. We are learning how to master the flow of energy and put it into good use or good distribution for the benefit of the entire collective. Healthy energy exchanges through fair-trade system is the system of the new world. Capitalism is evil. But sadly, many people have been way too conditioned in this dog-eat-dog societal fabric to take as much as they can, and give as little as possible. Spotifyis currently on a collapsing course because they don’t have a balanced energy distribution in their system. The platform extracts too much energy from the artists and the users/subscribers. Like what Ronnie James Dio sings in Black Sabbath’s “Heaven and Hell”, my favorite Sabbath song from the Dio era: “The devil is never a maker, the less that you give, you’re a taker.”
LotsOfMuzik: You’ve mentioned the risk of YouTube removing the lyric video for “See The Reapers Coming” due to its content, yet you still use the platform to host it. How do you navigate the tension of using mainstream platforms to spread a message that is explicitly critical of the systems those platforms are part of? At what point, if ever, would you abandon YouTube entirely?
Jeff: Kekal started to re-upload videos on YouTube in 2020. Prior to that, official music videos of Kekal were published on my Spitonself channel, which had been active since 2008 something, but the entire channel was taken down abruptly by YouTube in 2018. Most likely because of the music video of “Rotten in the House” from the 2018 album “Deeper Underground”, because the video of that song describes mind-control. So, Kekal has already lost tens of thousands of video views and some thousands of subscribers to that channel. That’s the risk. When this current Kekal official channel began in 2020, I felt that the platform got suppressed. The number of subscribers doesn’t move too much in 5 years, because our videos don’t seem to appear on the “recommended videos” list outside of those who are already subscribed. Kekal is also put under shadow-ban on social media, especially Instagram. I don’t expect too much from mainstream social media platforms, but for YouTube, they offer open and free video views for users without having to subscribe to the platform. That’s why it’s fine to keep them hosting the videos. I don’t operate with fear because that’s what they want, to keep us in the state of fear. Telling the public about the risk of videos being removed on the platform also to some degree would help in keeping the video, because they don’t want the public to know they are doing that censorship thing, either shadow-ban or removing content under the pretext “against community standards”.
LotsOfMuzik: Your Substack essays now go considerably deeper into your worldview than almost anything in the music itself. Is there a risk that the writing overshadows the music? Do you see Kekal as increasingly a publishing and writing project as much as a music project, or are the two inseparable?
Jeff: My writing goes hand in hand with the music. Music is an artistic expression, and writing article is a way to make any information being transferred in a more in-depth and comprehensive way than just the lyrics. People may think the writing may overshadow the music, but because I use Substack, there are also a significant number of non Kekal fans, who may not be even dig metal music, that happened to follow Kekal’s Substack just because of the articles posted there. As an artist myself, both writing and doing music is inseparable because I write these articles as genuine as I write the lyrics or compose the music. I put positive energy into both of them. But the issue is just that not all Kekal fans like to read, and not all Kekal’s Substack subscribers like Kekal’s music. It may end up a bit separated in that sense, from the readers’ and listeners’ perspectives, but not from my own perspective.
LotsOfMuzik: Over 30 years, Kekal has consistently attracted fans who came purely for the avant-garde metal and were bewildered or pushed away by the spiritual and political content. You’ve said clearly that if your music offends anyone, it’s not your problem. But has listener response, whether positive pushback or deeply moving resonance, ever genuinely changed your mind about something, musically or philosophically?
Jeff: No. Kekal has always been a non-conformist type of band that listens to the voice within instead of external voices from the crowd.
LotsOfMuzik: AI-generated music is now flooding every platform. As someone who holds strong views about artificial intelligence’s role in what you describe as an agenda to replace organic human consciousness, how do you personally experience AI-generated music? Does it feel qualitatively different from music made by a human being, and does it concern you artistically?
Jeff: It is different, yes. AI generated music is getting better in terms of choosing notes and chord progressions, because they do mix-and-match taken from many popular songs quite well. But in terms of the soul or energy within it that could move anyone, it’s zero. None. It is concerning not in a way of being jealous to it like one would see new immigrants that may take over the job market in your town. It’s not like that, even though AI has taken over my job market in the creative design field. My concern is that it may further deteriorate the human creativity in the collective, if more and more artists use AI to write music.
LotsOfMuzik: Last question, and the most open-ended: if someone hears “See The Reapers Coming” for the very first time and walks away with one thought, one question, or one feeling you most want them to carry, what is it? Not the full message as you’ve laid it out in the essays, the raw, essential thing you need this music to transmit right now.
Jeff: I’d leave this question for anyone who has listened to the song to answer. They have the very right and freely to do so, to come up with their own impression. Feel free to use this space. Thank you.
LotsOfMuzik: Thank you for your time.
Jeff: Thank you for asking all these questions.
We want to extend our deepest gratitude to Jeff for his time, vulnerability, and profound honesty throughout this conversation. Kekal‘s new single, “See The Reapers Coming,” is available right now as a free or name-your-price download exclusively on Bandcamp. You can also watch the official lyric video on YouTube.
For those interested in exploring the deep philosophical and spiritual concepts discussed in this interview, we highly recommend reading Jeff’s ongoing essays on his Substack.
Follow the links below to support the music and stay updated on the progress of Kanata.
Bandcamp (Single): https://kekal.bandcamp.com/track/see-the-reapers-coming
Bandcamp (Main Page): https://kekal.bandcamp.com
YouTube (Lyric Video): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZK5WbRepLqg
Website: https://kekal.org
Substack: https://kekal.substack.com
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/kekalofficial
Instagram: https://instagram.com/kekalofficial
